call me a cab

[schmerica]

Things done tonight: Mean Girls viewing (yay!); Molly birthday story writing (double yay!); chat with Nifra.

One of the things I love about talking to Nifra about due South is that we have a tendency to agree on many, many things, from the obvious "oh my god, I love them so MUCH!" all the way to "Okay, blah-di-blah classic epic well-loved F/K story is really overrated." So tonight we were talking about one of the things I've always found sort of strange about a lot of F/K stories -- basically, the names-and-sex-scenes issue.

pearl_o: ds cliche I may well never write: stopping a romantic or sexual scene to change ray's name for fraser to ben or benton.

nifra_idril: *laughs*

pearl-o: most of the time, it feels more intimate to me keeping it fraser.

nif: i kind of like it better as fraser, honestly

pearl-o: you know, there are plenty of stories where it works, but most of the time I'm like "yeah, okay, whatever."
pearl-o: American Way, Passion, both convince me within them.
pearl-o: But, I dunno. Ray thinks of him as Fraser, and I really like that.

nif: true - but american way is like, based on that business.

pearl-o: *nod*
pearl-o: this may just be one of my weird quirks, though.
pearl-o: but a lot of the time it feels like they're going "hmm, well, the way they are isn't romantic or right enough. let's fix it." and, I dunno. I like the way they are.
pearl-o: Maybe I just don't like the seperating of the relationship that way.
pearl-o: *ponders some more*

nif: *nods* Exactly -- Fraser is to Ray this amazing human being, and the word Fraser isn't a way of keeping him at arms length or something...that's his *name* that's who he *is*.

pearl-o: *nod*

nif: It doesn't make things any less or more romantic to call him by his first name.

pearl-o>: totally.

nif: *laughs* I feel vehemently on this topic -- I dated a guy who goes by his last name.

pearl-o: heh.

We talked about it a little more than that, but I'm still not sure I can articulate exactly what I feel about the subject. It might just come down to the combination of being quite, quite common and being something that would never have occurred to me on my own. Hmm.

Comments

[dammitcarl.livejournal.com]

the x-files has that same problem with mulder, be it mulder/scully or mulder/krycek. mulder even tells scully, in canon, "i make my mom call me mulder." and yet, once the relationship gets "serious", out comes the "i think i'd like the way you'd say my name even though i've never let anyone since my long lost sister call me that."

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

jess! you know, I was thinking about you earlier. Because I was talking with sprkid, and they had to cancel plans with me for tomorrow because their boss randomly gave them a free ticket here (http://www.hob.com/tickets/festivals/sasquatch/index.asp). And then I was horribly jealous. And I figured I would share so you could be jealous too. Or something.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Mmm, definitely agree that it doesn't work much. The one dS sex scene that I've written, though, actually had Ray use Fraser, Ben, and Benton (buddy). Depending on the moment in time. But it was established pairing. I can't see Ray ever thinking Benton when he's just casually thinking of Fraser. I mean, I have a hard time thinking of him as 'Benton' or 'Ben'. Because... he's Fraser (though I found it easy enough to not use Fraser when writing Benton's POV, so it all depends -- in fact, I can't use 'Fraser' when writing Benton pov, because I can't make him think of himself by his last name. He just refuses to, and I understand.).

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

It's not something I've ever noticed in established relationship stories, I don't think. Just the first time ones with the requisite little story-time-out to get everyone on a first name basis.

I think the stories where it *is* an effective scene are those where Fraser's identity and his construction of his selves is really a major theme -- because then it has a purpose, furthering the story and the characterization. Whereas in a lot of stories, it just, I don't know, seems stuck in there.

I find myself using Fraser mainly, even his pov -- it's a default setting for me, I guess; Ben or Benton have a sort of emphatic quality compared with it, just because of their less frequent use, so I need to have a specific reason to use them (like taking place in his childhood, perhaps) before I can make it work. I think there was a really interesting discussion about this topic -- Fraser's name and writing his pov -- on somebody's lj a couple months ago, but I can't remember where.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I think the stories where it *is* an effective scene are those where Fraser's identity and his construction of his selves is really a major theme -- because then it has a purpose, furthering the story and the characterization. Whereas in a lot of stories, it just, I don't know, seems stuck in there.

Mmm, I've noticed that. You mentioned a couple of stories up in your entry proper that worked really well that way, but it is true that some are just "Fraser's a bit too formal if they're fucking" reason-wise and that takes me out of the story.

I find myself using Fraser mainly, even his pov -- it's a default setting for me, I guess; Ben or Benton have a sort of emphatic quality compared with it, just because of their less frequent use, so I need to have a specific reason to use them (like taking place in his childhood, perhaps) before I can make it work. I think there was a really interesting discussion about this topic -- Fraser's name and writing his pov -- on somebody's lj a couple months ago, but I can't remember where.

I almost exclusively use Fraser when speaking of him -- that's who he is to me. But when I write him, I cannot convince myself that that's who he is to himself. I tried, but it's hard enough for me to feel as though I'm writing him -- if I use Fraser, I immediately get bounced outside his pov. I lose him completely if I think of him as Fraser while writing him. He's almost always Fraser when I'm writing other people, but from the inside...

*giggle*

[minstrelia.livejournal.com]

You're a cab!

Re: *giggle*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Thank you, darling.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Aha! I found the entry I was thinking about with regards to the Fraser pov thing -- it was in katallison's journal, way back last August. There's a lot of interesting comments in it, I think.

http://katallison.livejournal.com/35991.html

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much for the link.