(no subject)

[schmerica]

I've never understood the "we must encourage the newbies!" phenomena, really, myself. Part of it, I think, may just me liking the idea of things being based on merit; part of it might just be discomfort with the mindset that people deserve something, and we have a responsibility to give it to them; part of it might be the fact that I want to think (and hope) that any comments or appreciations I got when I was a newbie was in fact sincere, and not just some "duty" to pat me on the back; part of it might just the simple way I have it sorted in my mind.

Some writers suck. Lots of newbies suck. Of course, established writers suck, too. I don't feel like encouraging people whom I don't enjoy, simply because of their new status, or because of the vague possibility that they may become good someday.

I like good writers, and good writing. Victoria made a comment in her entry about how good fic gets noticed, and while that's not a hard fast rule, of course (dude, there's always way underrated people), it is true to some extent.

I remember getting the email announcement for Koi's "Mercy" back in the summer, and thinking, when I didn't recognize the name, "Hmm. This is probably going to suck, but I'm bored, so. Might as well give it a try." I can easily think of quite a few other people where the circumstances were similar; they wrote good things, people passed around their names, more people read them, and you know, good things happened all around.

I don't know if I actually have a point here or not.

Comments

[afrai.livejournal.com]

I've never understood the "we must encourage the newbies!" phenomena, really, myself.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "encourage." I don't think anyone is obligated to praise newbies' fic just because they're newbies, but saying hi and answering questions and pointing the way to fannish resources, things like that -- those are all good things, yeah.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but the discussion that prompted this has the sort of thing where people say SV fandom has a whole is bitchy and mean and unencouraging. It seems like it's referring more to a lack of cheerleading and streamers than what you're talking about. Like saying "People suck because they only read stuff by authors they've read before, or that's been recced" or "You should comment on stuff by new people, not people who're already around" and all the other stuff -- that seems less like the sort of friendliness you mean.

Re:

[afrai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's kind of dumb. Understandable, but dumb. I suppose they have different expectations of fandom.

Just a few random thoughts

[mz-bstone.livejournal.com]

THIS IS NOT about SV in particular, actually. It's something I've seen in all sorts of groups and committees, and in SF con fandom. And these are just ... sort of what I've picked up the last 16 years or so.

First of all, with online? I think the encouraging the newbies thing is more than just in fanfic -- fandom has a lot of other dimensions to it. Fanfic just gets brought up so often because it's visible, an easy example to use. Really, it extends to all aspects of a fandom.

One thing I've notices is that in newsgroups and on lists, especially big ones, if you're new and you speak up (and I've seen new fen make wonderful, thoughtful points as often as vapid or did you *read* the FAQ? ones)often as the "new guy" you get ... crickets. If nobody engages you, interacts with you? It's a rather lonely and dull fannish experience. This can be especially frustrating when someone more established makes a trivial, passing comment that gets a dozen responses.

It's sort of like being a wallflower all night long. Every night. Eventually, some people end up deciding all dances must suck.

I lurk a great deal -- if something really piques my interests, I may post. Sometimes people get into a nice debate with me, sometimes not. I'm the kinda wallflower that dances by herself and has a helluva good time. The rare occasion somebody leads me onto the floor, I'm good to go. But for some ... it's disheartening. Having a couple of people just say, "Hey!" and actually engaging you ... is part of keeping the whole thing going. If people aren't getting back anything of what they try to put in, they give up. And that can, over time, lead to stagnation in a fandom if it's the same old guard all the time. I've heard the whole community/not-community debate, and the best way I can explain it is it's a constantly evolving quasi-community. It's functioning changes and shifts over time, so does it's membership, and so does it's agenda. The one constant of fandom "communities" is change. New people and new perspectives are important to that.

There's also the thing when factions of fandoms smack each other around a bit. It happens. It's not pretty. Sometimes new fen walk in and step on landmines planted years before. I've seen it in X-Files, and SF cons in RL. I've heard tell of it in dS fandom, which had a bit of a battle of Ray vs. Ray. I started writing there, and was given my helmet and my abestos undies, and this was a while after the real bitterness had subsided. Except for one kind, well meaning LoC saying that my stories showed promise and if I ever wrote the *real* Ray I'd have a fan for life, I was okay. But I did witness one or two bouncing betties go off, and it wasn't pretty. Fortunately, I've always lucked out and met nice people who went out of their way to be nice. Thus -- I keep my hand in, have fun, and enjoy what I enjoy.

So -- yeah. It's a big, rather complicated mish-mash of people and sensibilities out there. I don't see that any one person has to become a universal fannish welcome wagon -- but if one gets the chance to befriend someone, even casually, and just keep the whole thing thriving -- I think the experience lasts longer and gets better. More fun for all.

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say it's anyone's duty to encourage the "newbies"... but it's nice to interact with them. Just, every once a while... if everyone would occasionally give input to a new fandom person's discussion or offer them feedback on their art/songvid/story, it would make fandom a friendlier place.

No one's obligated to do it, and it doesn't have to be patronizing (the person can disagree with their opinions in the discussion or send very critical feedback, ect), but it creates good karma?

I know that when I started in fandom, I wrote horrible, horrible things and I felt very alone. The writers who answered my insanely devoted and detailed feedback, and the person who sent me that long, pull-no-punches 'your series SUCKS because of this and this' letter of comment did me immeasurable service. And I try to occasionally pay that forward in their example.

But certainly no one owes anyone anything. We're all doing this as a hobby, and if we're not enjoying ourselves, what's the point?

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

And, oh. Should clarify myself.

I'm not saying that this is actually a SV specific problem. The fandom intimidates me for completely different reasons -- ones that mainly have to do with me and my personal issues. heh.

Actually, there's really horrible interaction for newbies in the Harry Potter fandom (in my experience) as it's fairly old, ridiculously huge and spread out, and with little sense of community.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. I think being friendly and having fun is always a good thing, and I don't necessarily think "throw 'em in the water, and make em learn to swim!" It's just the way people go about talking about the subject that gets my back up, I think.

[bientot.livejournal.com]

Well, having made my first fanfic plunge in the last couple of W100s and admitting to being pathetically grateful for the kind words I received, I have to say I hope people were sincere in their comments and not simply 'encouraging the newby'.

I came into Smallville fandome via LJ, and found the environment very friendly. I've scanned through the kerfluffles and am just as happy not to participate, thanks anyhow. My first fandom was Blake's 7, just as The Shit Hit the Fandom, and I got plenty 'nuff fanwar to last a lifetime, so I'll just muddle on...and if I do manage to expand this 'writing' thing, I'll continue to be pathetically grateful for any feedback I get!

Oh, and yeah, some newbies should be encouraged never to pick up a plot bunny ever again. I hope I'm not owe of them!