la la la femslash

[schmerica]

I don't really find the "why do lesbians dig m/m slash, anyway?" discussions all that interesting anymore -- like most slash discussions, it seems to have lots of interesting theories but basically come down to "why are people turned on by what turns them on?" which, really, strikes me as a question that doesn't need an answer -- but it struck on this last go-round that, hey. No one ever asks about the straight girls who write/dig femslash, eh?

I imagine this is possibly a combination of several things:

a) That femslash tends to be under-represented or -cared-for or -considered in slash fandom in general.

b) That there aren't that many of us (and possibly an assumption of queerness goes along with the writing of f/f, though I'm not really confident on that point. At any rate, straightness is not necessarily something immediately apparent, especially since slash fandom tends to be a very queer-seeming place, at least in the circles I'm most familiar with).

On a completely different note, my dad and brother left yesterday for their week at the national trapper's convention. I love them both dearly, but the week every year when they're gone? It's like vacation, man. Yaaaaay.

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

That there aren't that many of us (and possibly an assumption of queerness goes along with the writing of f/f, though I'm not really confident on that point. At any rate, straightness is not necessarily something immediately visible).

I think this is the case. I read a recent discussion somewhere (before vacay, so god knows where it was), where the poster did assume that straight women *didn't* write f/f. And while it's not anywhere near the amount of het or m/m slash I write, I have on occasion written it, I do read it if it's a pairing that interests me, which is mostly why I read any fanfic. It's just that the f/f couples who interest me are even fewer than the m/f or m/m (or m/f/m threesomes).

Like, say, Willow/Tara is lovely, but I don't seek out fic for it. Cordelia/Faith, otoh, or Kaylee/Inara (or Kaylee/River, but River/almost anyone will pique my interest) or Hermione/Ginny or Bellatrix/Narcissa... I'm more prone to read if it pops up on my flist.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

And while it's not anywhere near the amount of het or m/m slash I write, I have on occasion written it, I do read it if it's a pairing that interests me, which is mostly why I read any fanfic.

*nod* I don't find women *innately* less interesting in men, is the thing. Nor female-based relationships. Firefly is an excellent examples where I find all the really interesting relationships on the show to be either female-female or female-male based -- River-Simon, Zoe-Wash, Mal-Inara, Zoe-Mal, Kaylee-Inara, Kaylee-Mal, and on and on all seem central in a way the guy-guy ones don't.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Yes. I don't mind the Jayne/Simon or the Mal/Jayne - I read it if the mood strikes me - but it doesn't ping me the way Mal/Kaylee, or River/Simon or even Kaylee/Inara does.

Of course, for me, the fic is 90% about pinging me, and then other ten is either boredom or really trusting the author.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I don't mean ping in a sexual sense, necessarily, so much as an emotional one.

Though sexual pinging is good too. I find good f/f featuring characters I'm interested in as much of a turn on as good m/m or m/f featuring characters I'm interested in.

It's the "characters I'm interested" part that's important to me.

[moireach.livejournal.com]

Eeeenteresting. You're right: I do tend to assume at least mild bisexuality on the part of a female author who writes girl-on-girl. To the point where I wanna say dude, you've gotta be at *least* a Kinsey 1 if you're even thinking about it like that. But then that's labelling and I should not do that. :) I'll be watching this thread. ;)

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

I'm not necessarily anti-label, but at a certain point it becomes kind of meaningless, yeah? I mean, I think girls are pretty or even hot, and I'm interested in f/f relationships, so I supposed you could argue problematic aspects to pure heterosexuality. But on the other hand, if girls don't get me off and I don't want to have a relationship with one, I'm not sure any other label has any use.

[cacklebang.livejournal.com]

Since I'm just coming out of lurkitude for a moment, I'll just drop in my two cents.

In terms of writing slash, the majority of writers are female and there's definitely a large straight contingent writing. These girls, I feel, sometimes operate on the non-threat theory, explained to me as thus by a male friend- Guys love seeing two chicks together. (If they're hot.) And by not having a male figure present in the scenario there is no threat of someone upstaging their masculinity. It's enjoying the scenario without having a yardstick to measure up to in your imagination. Theoretically, the inverse works the same way.
I think for many female writers femslash can almost come too close to reality than they want from their fiction. They want something sexy, but detached. Something that allows to focus their sexuality out of themselves is a rather freeing element present in slash. Femslash is, in a sense, too close to actually Being Gay.

In terms of fanfiction, the lack of femslash can come from a lack of a relationship to base it off of. Sure, there's "best friend" subtext everywhere. But the media tends to objectify lesbian relationships and turn them into a more masculine-geared fantasy. On the other hand, the opposite direction can also be taken and given a sappy, over-sentimental feel (Because That's How Women Are.) In general, it tends to alienate the lesbian element by overexposure.

Or I could be just talking with no reason at all.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'm really that much more interested in "why don't people write femslash" than "why *do* people write slash", though -- it seems kind of another version of the same thing.

And, really, the other thing is comes down to? Everybody should write *what I like*.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_swallow/]

> And, really, the other thing is comes down to? Everybody should write *what I like*.

Right on.

[frahulettaes.livejournal.com]

snort...lurkitude.
sorry, that just brought out the 12 year old in me.
Very interesting convo...really.

[medie]

*waves hand*

*is reasonably straight girl who likes femmeslash*

In truth, I liked f/f before m/m. I mean, if I'm gonna write slash...which gender do I know better? :-p

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

Mostly b, I think, and I think it's partially because fandom is a very queer-seeming place, but also because fandom is rather focused on sexuality.

Because in the pro fiction world, straight people write about gay relationships and gay people write about straight relationships, and while it may not be exceedingly common, it's not uncommon, either. Neil Gaiman comes to mind -- for a straight author, he has a lot of (IMO) well-done portrayals of gay and trans characters in his writing, and it's not because of his sexuality but because those were the characters he wanted to write. Where in fandom, it tends to be assumed that we're attracted to the characters sexually, or we wouldn't write about them. Silly, yeah.

I think there may also be a difference between visual-media fandom and written-media fandom. There are, IMO, a lot more people in book-based fandoms who are not physically attracted to the characters (difficult, when they're words) and a lot more in media fandoms who write at least partially for The Pretty. So there's more of an assumption there that sexuality determines fic choice. Or something.

but basically come down to "why are people turned on by what turns them on?" which, really, strikes me as a question that doesn't need an answer

Yeah, REALLY. I mean, if I understood why things turn me on, I'd probably be too freaked out to leave my room. Some things are better unanalyzed.

[afrai.livejournal.com]

I am much with the nodding. What Mel said! A lot of the theories about why people write what they do write in fandom tend to be based on the assumption that people write fic about what turns them on -- which may be true in most cases, but not all. So the theories go all wonky.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

So ... you're *not* turned on by seagulls?

[afrai.livejournal.com]

. . . Okay, but that's an exception! Usually I'm not turned on by the people beings I write about. Honest!

[abelladonna.livejournal.com]

Honestly? It's A) and B)

I don't really find the "why do lesbians dig m/m slash, anyway?"

As a "complete dyke except I was once married", I often get tired of defending my m/m slash. I write f/f as well, and, based upon what little feedback I've gotten on it, people so assume queerness if I'm writing femmeslash. But I write het too. For me, it's not about the gender of the characters in question, it's about the chemistry. Hence, my writing of all nature of fic. I've even written a threesome (m/m/f).

Oh, and the "little feedback" comment was not a dig at fandom, it was merely an observation. I'd guess that my m/m feedback gets easily tem times the feedback my f/f fic gets. (Of course, I write pairings that are less likely to get attention in f/f, and usually in m/m.) It just seems like there aren't as many readers out there for it.

On the A) side of it: I don't think that the fact that there are fewer strong women in shows out there should be overlooked either. I am thrilled to see all the femmeslash coming out of Buffy, for canon and non-canon pairings. There are a lot of fandoms where they just are not any female characters at all, or there are really only one main character. Of course, that is where the crossover comes in. And, I'm not a Stargate fan, but from what I understand, there is a decent amount of SG1 femmeslash. I've even read some of it. Because, hey, it's not like I can overlook ANY femmeslash when I find it!

and possibly an assumption of queerness goes along with the writing of f/f, though I'm not really confident on that point.

Yes, I think that most people assume queerness when they see f/f fic. I'm not clear on the thought process behind it though.

And B): I do think that fandom tends to be a very queer-seeming place in general. I also think that people feel a little safer being open about being bi or queer. That is, when you are talking to people that you KNOW are accepting enough to write m/m or f/f fic, even if you know there are straight, then you feel safer being open at your sexuality. I know I do. There seems to be less of a chance of being judged.

(And, yes, I am agonizing over which f/f icon to use!)

[inalasahl]

That femslash tends to be under-represented or -cared-for or -considered in slash fandom in general.

I think this theory is right on the money: After all, "slash" is so automatically assumed to be m/m that people invented the term "femslash" to refer to women.

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

*solemn*

I choose to believe that you write femslash because you love me and I am the most important person in your life, or, in fact, in anyone's.

Do not dissuade me from that.

*pauses, then tacklesnugs you when you least expect it*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*ponders*

How does this work when I write fandoms you don't know? Or when I make *you* write me stuff?

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

*frowns*

You're hurting my brain.

*cries*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Oops.

*snug*