reasons why today is already a good day (with bonus rambling!)

[schmerica]

It just struck eight am here, and between this morning and last-night-when-I-should-have-been-sleeping-already, there's been cesperanza's brilliant new story, and lynnmonster's lovely flashfiction, and katallison's cool comments in these two posts about Ray/Ray and fandom in general.

Kat's thoughts, by the way, have me pondering again over Ray/Ray -- because it's something I've read quite a bit of and enjoyed, and like the description and concept of, but still doesn't really work for me. Maybe it comes down to the difference between me and, say, estrella30 here -- which is a thought I've heard from a couple of different people, only -- I *do* think F/K will work when I look at it closely; that's the whole reason I'm able to write it, anyway, is because I actually believe in it, taking all their flaws and annoyances and differences into account.

Or maybe it has to do with the fact that my primary investment does seem to be in Fraser, in a way it's not for the other characters, as much as I do adore them. I've talked before about that some, about how CotW is permanently fixed in my mind as Fraser's Happy Ending, Goddammmit. I mean, if the character you're most interested isn't, you know, *there*, it's not going to grab you as much. (For that matter, the Ray/Ray stories that do tend to work for me the most are the ones where he does play a large role, whether or not he actually appears.)

And then of course there's what Kat says in the second entry -- Ray/Ray slash is at its heart autumnal, it's about middle age -- which, hmm, raises the possibility that maybe it is a function of my youth, to some degree. I don't know if that's an aesthetic a nineteen or twenty year old *can* really appreciate. (But that's wrong, because there are plenty of people my age who dig them, so I don't quite know what I mean. Maturity, maybe, rather than youth?)

And, of course, there's always the possibility there isn't actually a reason. Maybe it's just not clicking.

Comments

[lynnmonster.livejournal.com]

Oooh!

(1) Thanks for the props, (B) Ces's story rocked my socks allllll the way off, and (iii) I think my admitted fondness for Ray/Ray is definitely mitigated by my love for F/K and the fact that I, too, feel like it's not anathema to their characters to live happily ever after.

P.S. -- didja get that song I sent you this morning? It's a cover of the one you were saying you wanted to hear...

[estrella30.livejournal.com]

*nodsnods*

I think you hit it right there in the beginning. I love F/K. I want to believe in F/K and want them to be happy and ride off into the snowset and have 3.2 Diefs and a white picket fence to keep the craibou out at night.

That being said, do I honestly, *realistically* think that Ray as a person and Fraser as a person could make it together? Uhm - maybe? Do I think they would make it? Huh. Maybe, maybe not. Do I think Ray and Ray have a better chance at making it? Sometimes, yeah. I definitely think that they do.

This all being said, stay tuned for estrella F/K porn coming up in which Ray and Fraser will most definitely have a happy ending *g*

[thete1.livejournal.com]

See, I'm not sure if youth has anything to do with it, as opposed to say... hmm. OTP-ness?

Because, you know, in my head? There's the universe where CotW is Fraser -- and Ray K.'s -- happy ending DAMMIT, and then there's the universe where Fraser and Ray V. made it work *somehow*, and then there's the universe where Ray K. and Ray V. realize that no, actually, they need someone in their lives who isn't as much of a huge, frustrating FREAK as Fraser so clearly is, and then there are all the universes where none of them make anything work at all, except for Fraser who is up in the Territories with Blair Sandburg.

And they *all* work for me, because I've never been very *good* at having just the *one* true pairing...

I dunno.

/ramble

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha, yes. OTPness being the incredibly obvious answer I still managed to overlook.

Although, you know, hmm. There are plenty of *other* pairings outside my OTP I read, you know? I mean, I've written post-CotW-failure fic where RayK comes back to Chicago and has comfort sex with Frannie (and would read anybody else's in that pairing like the crack it is). I think that would explain why I don't want shippy Ray/Ray, but not not liking the pairing as a whole, if that makes sense.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*scurries to check email* Yay, I love this song! You are a darling, lynn; thank you so much.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*nod* It's kind of just -- like, a whole different way of looking at the relationship, I guess, and one I don't quite get. (And vice versa, I imagine.)

And yaaaay, estrella story coming up!

[thete1.livejournal.com]

*nod nod* It absolutely does. I mean, I'm a SLUT, but there have always been things like...

Well, I've *always* had special woobies, and needed them to have some happiness even if they couldn't have the also-woobie I tended to want them to have.

In a world with Ray/Ray, I want Fraser to have someone, too. It's actually one of the many reasons why CotW worked so well for me. Because, man -- I'm *all* for Vecchio and The Stella to have their stylishly fabulous happy. It's beautiful, and the ep wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying for me, without it.

I'm a romantic, man. I need everyone happy at the end. NO REALLY. *hee*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

In a world with Ray/Ray, I want Fraser to have someone, too. It's actually one of the many reasons why CotW worked so well for me. Because, man -- I'm *all* for Vecchio and The Stella to have their stylishly fabulous happy. It's beautiful, and the ep wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying for me, without it.

*nods frantically*

Wow, though, you know, I can't think of one Ray/Ray that has the implication Fraser found someone up north. Which makes sense to me, actually, because I have a hell of a lot of trouble seeing it. Maybe because Fraser's loneliness and/or solitariness seems such an essential part of him, but hmm -- I somehow kind of see RayK as Fraser's last chance for that. I can imagine RayK going on and being happy with other people fairly easily, but I have trouble imagining someone else breaking in as far under Fraser's skin as either of the Rays, you know? They were two-of-a-kind occurrences.

I'm not sure why I think of RayK managing to move on so much easier than Fraser, but it's definitely there. Maybe because their expectations seem so much different? Ray took it for granted he'd have someone forever, even though that turned out not to be true, and Fraser's never thought that.

[estrella30.livejournal.com]

and then there's the universe where Ray K. and Ray V. realize that no, actually, they need someone in their lives who isn't as much of a huge, frustrating FREAK as Fraser so clearly is, and then there are all the universes where none of them make anything work at all, except for Fraser who is up in the Territories with Blair Sandburg.

Dude - I think I love you *g*

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

I'm with Te in agreeing that there's not just 'one' thing that could have happened--this is why I love reading fanfic, for the constant do-overness of it, the constant sense of possibility!

But also, as much as I love Kat's reading of Ray/Ray and think its astute, I don't think that the autumnal, middle-age thing is the only reason to love Ray/Ray. I mean, some people love the R/R because it halves (or merely changes) the sexual issues; some people love it (*cough*) for the kind of narcissism, the mirroring thing; the ultimate same-with-a-difference story that we love in so much slash (two characters are the same--at least in sex--and yet so different; here both the sameness, ie. ethnic sidekicky thing, and the differences, which I think are obvious.)

So maybe, like many great stories, there are different Ray/Rays for different stages or life or different personalities.

[thete1.livejournal.com]

Maybe because Fraser's loneliness and/or solitariness seems such an essential part of him, but hmm -- I somehow kind of see RayK as Fraser's last chance for that. I can imagine RayK going on and being happy with other people fairly easily, but I have trouble imagining someone else breaking in as far under Fraser's skin as either of the Rays, you know? They were two-of-a-kind occurrences.

*nod nod* It's true. But still, I'd like to have more... *sense* that Fraser, in the absence of his Rays, has perhaps begun to find a way to come to terms with his solitude. To *be* a solitary person, as opposed to one who is merely alone.

Too often (well, back when I was reading regularly), a Ray/Ray story with Fraser mentioned at all would give something like the impression that the author had, perhaps, just a *few* issues to work through wrt Fraser.

I'm not sure why I think of RayK managing to move on so much easier than Fraser, but it's definitely there. Maybe because their expectations seem so much different? Ray took it for granted he'd have someone forever, even though that turned out not to be true, and Fraser's never thought that.

*nods* And also, well. If someone hits on Ray? He'll a) notice it, b) consider it, and c) enjoy it, either way.

[thete1.livejournal.com]

*hee hee heeee*

Words cannot describe my pain at having never managed to get that Fraser/Blair story written...

[thete1.livejournal.com]

I'm with Te in agreeing that there's not just 'one' thing that could have happened--this is why I love reading fanfic, for the constant do-overness of it, the constant sense of possibility!

Oh, Lord, yes. Where would be the fun if I couldn't write the same two people hooking up in a billion different ways?

So maybe, like many great stories, there are different Ray/Rays for different stages or life or different personalities.

Mmm. Yes. Rays.

...

Yep, I'm out of coherence entirely. *snerf*

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

I want to believe in F/K and want them to be happy and ride off into the snowset and have 3.2 Diefs

Reason # 396 Why I Love Estrella.

[ladysorka]

I'm apparently the only person in the fandom who doesn't like Ray/Ray - but I don't like for the same reason I don't like Fraser/RayV, in that Ray Vecchio (and Ron Weasley) are the only two characters in all of fandom that I just can't read as anything other than straight. Complete and utter mental block.

Barring that, I do think it's the fact that I'm in this for Fraser, that I over-indentify with Fraser, and Ray/Ray stories always, always leave me going "But... what about Fraser?". Which is apparently something I just can't get over, as I've tried.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I actually completely agree with you on both of those things. RayV pings me as pretty much all straight, all the time (with a possible Zuko exception but that would be some damn violent and complicated sex, yo, that really wouldn't, in the end, be about sex at all, but about power and image and position) and I want Fraser to get his Damn Happy Ending.

Because he did get it and it just seems 'kick the puppy' mean to take it away. I actually wrote a Fraser pov Ray/Ray fic that I am now incapable of re-reading because it makes me want to cry. Because I'm the one kicking the puppy, only I insist on it being from the puppy's point of view.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

I'm with Te in agreeing that there's not just 'one' thing that could have happened--this is why I love reading fanfic, for the constant do-overness of it, the constant sense of possibility!

*nods* And I agree with that totally, and I find that endlessly fascinating. I'm not sure how my brain seems to hold that as true at the same time that it manages to hold over in the corner this fallback default position of what it thinks happened.

Although the ending in my head really has almost nothing to do with what I do read, write, or enjoy; it's a seperate thing, really.

So maybe, like many great stories, there are different Ray/Rays for different stages or life or different personalities.

Which, sure, I get that; this entry was basically me just navelgazing about why none of the Ray/Rays I've run across have inspired my love, specifically. Which, you know, there probably isn't going to be any sort of real answer for, but that doesn't stop me from examining it, anyway.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*nod nod* It's true. But still, I'd like to have more... *sense* that Fraser, in the absence of his Rays, has perhaps begun to find a way to come to terms with his solitude. To *be* a solitary person, as opposed to one who is merely alone.

*nods* Yes, I get that. And actually, that's making me think of Kat's darkness ds_flashfiction entry -- the coda to End of the Road. Which, um, I can't reread at the moment because, you know, I have to ration myself on the brilliant brilliant PAIN -- but yeah, Fraser, post-Ray, solitary but with that acceptance.

[jenboo.livejournal.com]

Count me in the number who don't have an OTP, who can see different situations ending in different pairings.

I think it all started with the Hornblower fandom and having all the pretty boys fucking each other below decks. I like everybody to be happy and I'm a bit of a 'love the one you're with' kind of gal (which I suppose makes me a slut, too, huh? *g*). Or maybe it's just that I've done one too many Gilbert and Sullivan operettas, where even the old, fat, contralto (whom I've played a couple of times) gets a guy.

There's something about the potential in the Ray/Ray pairing that fascinates me. I don't know why I see the possibility for airing their broken and bruised parts to each other much more plausible, but I do.
But F/K? I do see the potential for a happy ending there, too. More 'fairy tale' type happy than Ray/Ray.
And F/V? I actually can't see a happily ever after for them...maybe if Kowalski never shows up. There are actually a couple of stories that have made me believe they could make it, but I haven't been able to write anything that gives them a life together, just to two of them
Of course, I'm the girl that turned them all into werewolves so they could *all* live and fuck happily ever after together for eternity. *g*

Then there are the days when I want to give Fraser and Kowalski to each other and take Vecchio home for myself (because I'm just that weird)

/babbling

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

This is totally off topic, but your comment made me giggle, just because, man, pretty much the only HP slash I *read* is Ron Weasley.

On-topic: eh, it's a big fandom, is the thing; there's room for lots of people with lots of different preferences. I mean, the fact that there's lot of smart, cool, vocal Ray/Ray fans doesn't mean it's everybody's thing, and nobody expects it to, anymore than Turnbull slash or F/V or F/K is for everybody.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Wow, only four hundred?