fraser's dead mommy

[schmerica]

Okay, so I've seen Call of the Wild quite a few times now, right? And the one thing that I still don't get is the Muldoon-killing-Caroline-Fraser thing. I mean, the dialogue goes like this:

Fraser: Why didn't you tell me?

Bob: It seems misguided now but you were so young at the time, just a young boy. I was full of rage I didn't want to pass that to you. I wanted to protect you.

But I still don't get -- how did Fraser think his mother died? Did he never wonder about it? Did they have a different version that they told him (Fraser's saying "why didn't you tell me" there, not "why did you lie to me?", which seems different)? Where was he when this happened? Wouldn't he have been around? He remembers other stuff from that age and younger. Was it just something never mention ever in the whole rest of his life?

This plagues my mind, really. I suppose it might just be one of those things you have to fill in for yourself, but it bugs me nonetheless.

Comments

[lynnmonster.livejournal.com]

That's always struck me as rather odd, too.

You know, you *could* always right some explanatory fic...

*hint*

*hint*

*gives up on hinting and begs outright*

[katallison.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting question, so much so that I thought of essentially reposting it in ds_discourse, along with my speculations, but the etiquette of that seemed a bit sketchy, so instead I put up a link to this entry--hope you don't mind. *g*

Anyway, I really don't know what they had in mind with it, and, moving beyond the ultimately ungratifying "They just pulled it out of their ass" explanation, I see two options:

1. He thought she'd died accidentally. Maybe he was away--visiting his grandparents or something--and was told an untruth. This wouldn't, however, provide a rationale for his father's sudden frenzied pursuit of Muldoon, who (if I'm remembering correctly) had been a friend up until that point. That's something Fraser would be aware of (from rereading the journals if nothing else), would ponder, and almost certainly follow up on. I mean, OK, there's the whole trafficking-in-rare-species explanation, but. Hrm.

2. He knew she'd been murdered, but didn't know that Muldoon was the one who did it. Same issue as above, and really doesn't make any sense. If Fraser thought his mother had been murdered, he would have moved *heaven and earth* to make sure he knew for certain who had done it, and that that person had been properly punished.

One could also go a repressed memory route (he was there, saw what happened, blocked out relevant details), which -- um. Has problems. Though I'm sort of working that angle in something I'm writing.

While we're at it, the rationale for Muldoon killing Caroline is also unexplained (unless I'm forgetting something). Again, it's noteworthy that Muldoon and Bob Fraser were originally friends; Muldoon might have been a guest in the Fraser cabin at times. Which can lead one's thinking in some icky directions.

Anyway. Cool stuff for speculation and fictional hole-plugging.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting question, so much so that I thought of essentially reposting it in ds_discourse, along with my speculations, but the etiquette of that seemed a bit sketchy, so instead I put up a link to this entry--hope you don't mind. *g*

Oh, no, of course not! And, mmm, your thoughts are really interesting and well-stated.

Again, it's noteworthy that Muldoon and Bob Fraser were originally friends; Muldoon might have been a guest in the Fraser cabin at times. Which can lead one's thinking in some icky directions.

Huh, yeah. It never did *before*, but now that you mention it.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I read an interesting story (it was Fraser/Kowalski, though that may be incidental to the conversation at hand) once that used the 'repressed memory' idea as a jump-point. Blast, what was the title?

Anyway, the way they had it in the story made sense to me, considering the general repressed fuckupness of the living Fraser family relationships. Ben completely repressed and his family... well, thought it for the best. The 'why make a kid remember that his mom was shot by his dad's friend' line of reasoning. And he has to deal with remembering the memories and dealing and there are flashbacks and... ooo! Eric helps at some point, I believe.

Blast, blast. What was that story?

[doll-revolution.livejournal.com]

isn't it one of kellie matthews? turning or something?
http://kellie.mrks.org/fic/ds/turning.html

i think it is. it's darn good, regsrdless

[axiom_of_stripe]

my sketchy thoughts have always been like this: caroline is murdered while ben and bob are away. bob finds her and keeps ben from seeing the body, which is understandable for a kid that age with a violent murder; tell ben she's died, and ben fills in an accidental death from all of the dangers he knows about, living in the northern wilderness. bob falls into the depression that ben describes in hawk and a handsaw, then somehow gets a tip or something that points him at muldoon; makes ben a big breakfast, gives him a hug, and sends him to her grandparents while he goes haring off on the chase. ben assumes that his father has just snapped out of his depression and is going back to his usual workaholic self. grandparents conspire to let him believe this (doesn't bob say something about "we thought it was best, at your age" in call of the wild?). bob is too ashamed of killing -- he thinks -- muldoon to ever sit down and have a talk with ben once he's older, and really it's easier to avoid it....

[shayheyred.livejournal.com]

That's what I assumed, that Ben had been lied to about the manner of her death. It makes sense to me if he himself were not at home to see it happen.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

I second this. I think that we have to assume--barring repressed memory stories, which I like a lot!--that Caroline was not shot in front of her son and that the adults who were involved did not inform the child that his mother was murdered. That seems quite reasonable to me, actually; I don't think I would tell a six year old that his mother was shot on purpose by a friend (though Bob should have mentioned it later; of course, this is the least of what Bob should have talked to Fraser about. Thought: maybe this is WHY Bob never talks to his son; maybe the avoidance of THIS conversation meant the avoidance of all other conversation. Logically, this is the elephant in the room.)

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

though Bob should have mentioned it later; of course, this is the least of what Bob should have talked to Fraser about. Thought: maybe this is WHY Bob never talks to his son; maybe the avoidance of THIS conversation meant the avoidance of all other conversation. Logically, this is the elephant in the room.)

Huh. That's really an interesting point -- this as sort of at the center of that distance, a wedge Bob can't deal with between them. Hmm.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

See, yeah, this makes a lot of sense -- I can see it. *ponders*

[estrella30.livejournal.com]

I have to think about this later after I've had my coffee, but can I just pop in andd say how WRONG it is to title a post "Fraser's Dead Mommy"

Dude.

*licks you*

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

but can I just pop in andd say how WRONG it is to title a post "Fraser's Dead Mommy"

cracking up because, yes. my god. I love our fandom. *licks pearl* *snuggles estrella*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*licks back*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Well, I was going to call it something like "cotw questions" or whatever, but then I realized I'd have a lot of trouble remembering it and finding it in my archives later. This way I'll remember it!

[calathea.livejournal.com]

I have a friend whose younger brother died when she was about 6. He was killed when a drunk driver lost control of his car and drove onto the sidewalk into a group of people waiting to cross a road. My friend remembered her brother clearly, but it was only when we were in our last year at uni together that she found out how he had died, and all the terrible circumstances of the accident, in which her aunt was also injured.

What struck my friend as odd is that she cannot remember ever asking or even wondering how he died, and nor can her siblings. In many other ways, her family was entirely functional - they grieved for the child, remembered him on anniversaries like birthdays. My friend remembers many sad days when her mother would cry and her father would be angry. She found out, in the end, when one of her older sisters decided to get married and hopefully have children. She started a conversation when several female members of the family were present about whether the brother had died of an illness that could be hereditary.

My guess would be that my friend and her siblings at some point saw so many signals that their brother's death was not to be spoken of in any detail, that they didn't even ask, they never talked about it amongst themselves, or even wondered about it in their own minds.

I suppose the point of this long-winded comment is that I have seen it for real - a huge traumatic incident that should, by rights, have been one of the headlines of the mutual life of my friend's family, but wasn't. My friend often says that she can't imagine what she was thinking all those years, not to be curious about her brother's death, but she just wasn't. She was devastated when she found out, not only because of the way he died, but because of all the years when she hadn't bothered to find out more.

[claire.livejournal.com]

I have no intelligent comment to offer, except that I really like the PG mood picture for thoughtful. I may have stared at it for far too long already.

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

Regarding Ces' comments: Thought: maybe this is WHY Bob never talks to his son; maybe the avoidance of THIS conversation meant the avoidance of all other conversation. Logically, this is the elephant in the room.

This is an interesting note considering that Paul helped write COTW, and virtually the exact same theme/relationship pops up in Men With Brooms which he also helped write. They don't talk about mom so they don't talk about anything.

[engenda.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered this myself. Particularly, because of the confusion over how old Fraser was when she died. It's said in earlier episodes that he was quite young when he died, and we know he was about 7 in 1969 (if my sketchy memory of the pilot is correct), now I'm not sure if Caroline was dead then or not, but it's assumed she was (I know, I know never assume). However, Bob tells Fraser about a dance he was at in 1972, which Caroline came and got him about - this was in the later episodes. So, that would've made Fraser about 10. But Maggie was born in 1970 which means Bob was doing the naughty and so I'm confused, even though it is stated that Caroline was dead at the time. By taking this as a continuity error and going back to the original that Fraser was very young when she died, it's not all that surprising that he wasn't told of the manner of her death. And it became one of those things that aren't talked about.

But I'm very much agreeing with cesperanza in her analysis

[engenda.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered this myself. Particularly, because of the confusion over how old Fraser was when she died. It's said in earlier episodes that he was quite young when he died, and we know he was about 7 in 1969 (if my sketchy memory of the pilot is correct), now I'm not sure if Caroline was dead then or not, but it's assumed she was (I know, I know never assume). However, Bob tells Fraser about a dance he was at in 1972, which Caroline came and got him about - this was in the later episodes. So, that would've made Fraser about 10. But Maggie was born in 1970 which means Bob was doing the naughty and so I'm confused. By taking this as a continuity error and going back to the original that Fraser was very young when she died, it's not all that surprising that he wasn't told of the manner of her death. And it became one of those things that aren't talked about.

But I'm very much agreeing with cesperanza in her analysis