i'd have like a million of his babies

[schmerica]

Things I found surprisingly difficult about writing my first stab at Fraser/Vecchio fic ever, over at stop_drop_porn:

1) The name thing. I have not paid enough attention to when it is Benny and when it is Fraser.

2) More importantly, oh my god, you guys. How on earth does anybody manage to write F/V without it turning into indigestible sap? I think their love might, in fact, be too pure, because I think I have a stomachache now.

Maybe long exposure to Ray Kowalski's assholeness has skewed my world view? I can't find the sharp edge and prickliness and desire and loneliness and corresponding puzzle pieces that make up an OTP for me outside of F/K now. Fraser and Vecchio just ... love each other. Where's the story in that?

(Obviously there are very many stories in that, because I have read and enjoyed tons of them, duh. But I can't see them for myself is my point. I guess they're just going to have to sit around having perfectly pure brotherly love while I plan out all the complicatedness of smooshing Fraser and Kowalski together. Alas!)

In other news, I am now officially a linguistics major. \o/! Oh, my LOVE. Also, first day of both Old Church Slavonic [yay Slavs! yay tiny tiny class!] and a seminar on Typology of Auxiliary Structures [looks really hard but interesting]. MMMMMM.

Comments

[mutecornett.livejournal.com]

Oh yay, Linguistics! *high fives!*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

It is the BEST.

[joandarck.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I see a lot of tension and angst and anger and loneliness with them. I mean, they love each other, but. And that's even before you get into the big obvious angst injections like Victoria and Vegas. But I agree that the way people write them tends to focus on the sweet and easy, perhaps because that's what's unusual about them so it leaps out.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

See, I think most of the authors I read F/V from actually do a really good job at balancing it out -- it's just that I can't seem to find the tension and angst, you know? At least not on the Vecchio-->Fraser side.

[joandarck.livejournal.com]

Oh. Okay! Never mind then!

[pipsqueaky.livejournal.com]

You are mostly right in that they *are* a ridiculously sappy couple - they just LOVE each other so damn much. Especially Vecchio. My God, there's nothing he wouldn't do for Fraser. (see Isis's comment below)

Where the tension comes in, for me, is in everything *surrounding* that love - the circumstances and the complications and the histories - not the love itself. Because even though Vecchio would give up everything for Fraser, I never get the sense that Fraser would do the same for Vecchio. He loves Ray, absolutely, but he has other loyalties: duty, society, justice. And I think that's hard for Ray to understand sometimes. It's a quiet sort of angst - not like F/K where there are emotional outbursts and punches in the face - but that doesn't mean it's not there.

That moment in "Letting Go"? When Fraser is staring out the window, tears in his eyes and he can't look at Ray, so very much alone even though Ray is sitting right there beside him, and he blurts out "I was going with her, you know." And Ray just ... gives Benny this small, sad smile. And says "I know."

OMG WAAAAAAAAAAAH. Angst-o-rama.

Um, in happier news, HOORAY for linguistics! :)

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

It's a quiet sort of angst

I totally agree with this, although I think Fraser, given a desperate enough circumstance, would eventually do anything for Ray to keep Ray alive. Because I think to Fraser (especially season 1 Fraser), there's this sense that he (Ray) can afford to lose almost everything and it will be worth it for the right cause, but I don't get the sense that he'd be ok with Ray losing his life, not really. The times that Ray is truly in danger (I don't count 'Vault' because, frankly, I don't think Fraser does either), Fraser panics ("Pizza and Promises," for instance).

And "Letting Go"! "You've done enough." God, that KILLS me.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Awww, BOYS.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

FRAAAAAAAAAAAAAASER!!!!!!

...Sorry, I got distracted from the point at hand. (OMG WOOBIE!)

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

Victoria's Secret seemed to me to do a great job of showing that Vecchio would do anything for Fraser, and kill anyone who hurt him.

[slidellra.livejournal.com]

I haven't actually tried to appreciate Vecchio/Fraser (it's very nice to have a couple in reserve, in case my OTP wears out somehow), but when I've wandered idly by, I've had a hard time caring. My reaction is, I think, very similar to your sap problem. To me (at a cursory look, with no insult to anyone intended, and probably a reflection of my own lack of understanding of their dynamic) they're a dull pair. Kowalski is a dick, but man, he's electric.

(And I can enjoy Vecchio with just about anyone else, so it's not a Vecchio-avoidance issue. Just, apparently, love is not enough.)

But good job tackling Fraser/Vecchio anyway!

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Wow, that makes me ridiculously sad, seriously! For some reason not only am I disappointed most people reject F/V, but it makes it worse when they embrace Ray/Ray. I don't know why!

[joandarck.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

But somehow F/K/V is appealing to me, so I too ponder the wherefores of F/V.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

1.) This is so true. There are times when it's a bit interchangeable, and other times when it matters very much which one Ray uses.

2.) Hee! They are very easy to slip into sap with; which suits my tastes, I guess, because I tend towards sap anyway. But also for me, it's the blindingly obvious fact that they love each other that makes them so awesome. Like, in the canon and in the fic I enjoy, they butt heads and Ray bitches and Fraser acts affronted and it seems like they'll never just get along, yet they still do anything for each other and hang out all the time and seem to enjoy pushing each other's buttons, so that all the cross purposes and edges and angst ultimately will be ok. IMO.

Yay for linguistics! I took a class on it when I was getting my Anthro degree and found it fascinating. I imagine a whole major focused on it would be even more so.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

That all makes total sense to me -- it's weird, really, what suddenly makes one pairing or anything just click for someone completely, you know? F/V and I may not have been meant to be, but I can still admire it from afar. (Season 1/2 Fraser, bweee! And VECCHIO!)

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

it's weird, really, what suddenly makes one pairing or anything just click for someone completely, you know?

Oh yeah, definitely. It is really weird! I don't quite get why F/V pinged so incredibly hard for me and F/K didn't. Like, I see where people are getting F/K, I've read some great F/K fic, and I totally admire the pair from afar, but, as you say, it's not meant to be for me. :) (Yet, I see V/K and F/V/K. Maybe it's the Vecchio factor for me? Just like for people who don't 'ship F/V but do 'ship V/K and/or V/F/K, it's the Kowalski factor? I dunno! I'm just rambling at this point. Heh.)

[j-s-cavalcante.livejournal.com]

I guess they're just going to have to sit around having perfectly pure brotherly love while I plan out all the complicatedness of smooshing Fraser and Kowalski together.

To me, this sounds like a perfect plan.

Ray Vecchio's love for Fraser is brotherly. It verges on the saintly. He has forgiven more than we'll ever know. I think sex could happen--but only once, or else it becomes a pity thing, and that's awful. I don't buy their love as a romance. You said:

Fraser and Vecchio just ... love each other. Where's the story in that?

You've hit the nail on the head. That's why they don't compel me as a pairing.

So I don't worry about it. I just don't accept F/V prompts. Other people can do it, but I can't make myself believe. :)

[timian.livejournal.com]

Ray Vecchio's love for Fraser is brotherly. It verges on the saintly.

I see them the same way. The love is obvious, but although I've made an effort, I can't see any romantic component. I guess I need my slash to be SUPER OBVIOUS, which Ray K/Fraser is, luckily.

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

Ray Vecchio's love for Fraser is brotherly. It verges on the saintly. He has forgiven more than we'll ever know.

Nail, head, bam!

[j-s-cavalcante.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :)

Hey, that is one *sexy* picture of DM...is it Vecchio? Or from somewhere else?

In conclusion, Rae Kowalski.

Not that I'd stoop to leaving hints around everywhere. But pearl-o will forgive me when she reads your story. :)

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

The icon's definitely Vecchio, by sdwolfpup, but I don't know from which episode. Yay I have a Vecchio icon now!

And la la la Rae Kowalski!

[china_shop]

They are totally doing it! *g*

One way in is hurt/comfort: Fraser is a super woobie and Ray makes him feel better.

Also? Yay linguistics!!! \o/

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

You KNOW I can't resist the Fraser woobie!

[spainja.livejournal.com]

Ditto to what's been said above. I've always though of F/V as being like my grandparents: they're very sweet and loving and cute together, but I just can't picture them having sex, you know?

Also, Vecchio's hero-worship also makes the relationship too unbalanced for me--I feel like he's doing all the emotional work and Fraser's just passively accepting it. It's like...being with Vecchio wouldn't be a challenge for Fraser. It's too easy. Kowalski's an asshole--he'll whap Fraser upside the head and tell him to get over his damn self, already. And I think Fraser needs that challenge. Plus, Kowalski's assholiness (is too a word!) brings out Fraser's asshole side, or at least his bitchy, passive aggressive, snarky side. It makes Fraser more interesting.

Besides, if you follow the canon, Fraser and Vecchio's relationship seems doomed. You could find a way for them to survive the Vegas separation and Stella, but it's really difficult. In conclusion, F/V are just too easy to get together, and too difficult to keep together for my taste.

Now that being said, I do totally love Fraser and Vecchio's (platonic) relationship together. I think that Vecchio sees Fraser as his weird little brother who needs guidance and protection, and I think that the intimacy that Fraser finds in his friendship is extremely important to his emotional development. Benton Fraser strikes as a man who has had few lovers, but even fewer true friends. I like to think that he and Vecchio remain close friends the rest of their lives.

And I'd love to see more stories that explore that kind of relationship, that have Benny and Ray working together, relying on each other, sharing the intimacy of a good friendship...

Oh god. I think I would totally read Fraser/Vecchio smarm.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Oh god. I think I would totally read Fraser/Vecchio smarm.

OH MAN. IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.

[mondschein1.livejournal.com]

Oh, come come! There is plenty of prickly in F/V! Vecchio whinges even more than Kowalski does about Fraser persistently running off to get himself killed in wildly improbable ways involving llamas! Although, okay, Kowalski has a lot more of the general angst in life. Like, Vecchio would never, for any reason whatsoever, punch Fraser in the face on the shores of the lake they call Michigan. And Kowalski -- well, did. Just, Vecchio's much more relaxed, but he's got to complain by obligation, because that's what you do with family. Like, I have to really think very hard to see Kowalski and Fraser growing up to be an old comfortable bickering married couple? But I can see Fraser and Vecchio being an old comfortable married couple after, like, three years. Because Vecchio's brain just isn't wired to think about things like, "OMG FRASER WHY DO YOU LOVE ME OH MY GOD YOU'RE LEAVING ME AREN'T YOU?" I mean -- look at what happened after Victoria. RayK in the same situation would go completely NUTS -- but RayV got over it. Eventually -- because HI, he just shot his best friend in the BACK. And then he and Fraser have a tug-of-war over bluster-bluster-bluster and super-Mountie-ANGST, and eventually they fix themselves.

But, you know, despite that? You have to have the bickering. And the whinging. And the exasperation. And the days where it's like, "Christ, why did I ever start this thing with you ANYWAY? ...what? No, you idiot, I don't want a divorce, I just think you're nus. Can't a guy have an opinion around here?" That's just a hazard of dealing with Fraser. *pats him on the head fondly*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

See, though, I guess I don't really see Vecchio's vast amounts of bitching as really a matter of tension, you know? It's kind of pro forma. I mean, Vecchio will complain and point out how crazy Fraser is, and be annoyed, but there is ever ever any question of how everything is going to turn out.

[mondschein1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it isn't tension, this is true -- but it's not sappy, either. It's comfy!

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

Oh! oh! the jealousy. What I wouldn't give to be a linguistics major again. (Typology of Auxiliary Structures omg!)

[/geek]

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

I am SO EXCITED, man. Sexy, sexy linguistics. YAY.