This is probably the worst possible icon I could use.

[schmerica]

I'm not actually in bandom or anything, so I don't have any real or relevant comments about the controversy going on right now, but reading ficbyzee's latest entry has reminded me of the same issues I had when the issue was going around fandom a few years ago about straight girl fans using stuff like *licks* and *cuddles* and *kisses* in chat, and how that was maybe trying to be fake-lesbians-for-attention, and was maybe insulting to the real queer women involved in fandom. And yeah, appropriation of a minority culture is ALWAYS a serious issue, and I know that in this case I'm a member of the majority. So I guess I'm just left with the question of how to categorize homosocial interactions from people who don't explicitly identify as queer. Like, how do you prevent the offensive "fake-gay" taking of the culture without unduly restricting sincere affection and play and love and exploration?

I suppose this is probably complicated by the fact that a lot of slash fandom (both m/m and f/f) works by reinterpreting events that could be those nonsexual, homosocial bonds to show a sexual bond between the people. (Which is to say, if my life was a movie, I would totally be slashing me/fox1013 to the moon and back.)

Anyway. IN OTHER NEWS, here are some more people Roy Harper should have sex with IMMEDIATELY:

1) Benton Fraser
2) Martha Jones
3) The Doctor
4) Captain Jack Harkness
5) Izzie Stevens
6) Ziva David
7) Either Winchester brother

Please feel free to contribute more suggestions in the comments.

Comments

[marginalia.livejournal.com]

i do not know the answer, but i think that is a really good question to ask. i am bothered on a gut level by bandom *and* the girl!affection thing (which, after alcohol, is the top reason i can't see myself ever attending a con) and i do not have an answer. i hope there's a fruitful discussion on this. i am trying to be optimistic. it's a september resolution.

having no roy harper experience, i have no suggestions as to the sexing. woe!

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

I'm a straight girl who doesn't drink, and FWIW, I've had wonderful con experiences. It's not all about getting drunk and making out with girls. Truly it's not.

[marginalia.livejournal.com]

y'all need different PR, then ;)

(to be fair, that's not all of it. i was on the edge of sectus this summer, and that showed for sure that i am not made for cons. too many people, too many people i don't know, too many people who even if they knew me, once they meet me IRL will want to run far far away. because i am weird & quiet & don't drink & would rather knit than watch porn. my issues, let me show you them :) )

[grey-bard.livejournal.com]

Heh. May I just say that I understand your issues? If that's all that went on at cons, I wouldn't have been going to them for as many years as I have! Seriously, don't worry. While there's no shortage of chances to make out with girls, watch porn, or get drunk, there's also loads of geeking out over canon and fic, weaving wild theories about life the universe and everything, and scaring the waiters by talking about who you're going to "kill" or "make have sex" next.

[marginalia.livejournal.com]

although, at sectus i learned that i engage with the text in a totally different way than everyone else.

...granted, that just might have been because of the preponderance of snape & draco fen there :)

[hobbledehoy.livejournal.com]

wait a second. you don't want lots of making out?

:: cancels travel plans ::

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Do not feel woe, jaci! You are too awesome to feel woe.

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

here are some more people Roy Harper should have sex with IMMEDIATELY

*scratches head in puzzlement*

Who is Roy Harper?

*is woefully ignorant*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Roy Harper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Harper_(comics))! My love of loves in the DC universe!

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

Oooh! He looks awesome!

All I could think of was some superannuated rock star, and that didn't seem to resonate.

This makes much more sense. :-)

[lomedet.livejournal.com]

I have no bandom wisdom, but Roy Harper needs to have sex RIGHT NOW with the following people:

-Faith
-Zoe Washburne
-Malcolm Reynolds
-and can I second your vote for Izzie Stevens? I think I'd pay very, very good money to see that.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Your suggestion of Zoe has put really amusing Wash/Roy images in my head. Hee.

[lomedet.livejournal.com]

and now, of course, I'm imagining Roy/Wash/Zoe, and near to fainting away from the HOT.

(and now that I think of it, Zoe and Wash would be good for Roy, in that way that they're a more stable and healthy couple than anyone in his life now.)

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

Yes...reading the discussion I did have moments of wanting to gently reference myself :)

Maybe the problem lies entirely elsewhere also, namely the truth value of the *fictional* narrative on stage and the *real* activism off stage (or so I seemed to gather from the debates)?

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem people were having with the original post *was* the total lack of context -- and I mean that both in the activism you're talking about and in the more general love way I mention in the post. Like, I think a lot of us would agree with fake gay exploitation in, say, the case of the Britney-Madonna kiss at the VMA's a couple years ago. But treating the bandom boys as the same thing really ignores *so much* about their specific situation.

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

Dawwwwwwww.

*snugs you*

*waits for people to squee about the UST*

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*loves you the BEST*

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I found the girlaffection thing kind of odd--since when do straight girls not cuddle? And I know an awful lot who kiss (kissing to me implies affection, not necessarily sexual attraction). But I also tend to think women in particular are rarely 100% straight--homosocial affection is too important, widespread, and to a large extent socially accepted-- between women, and who am I to say where someone "ought" to be on the continuum? So in fandom it doesn't bother me. I AM bothered by straight girls making out at parties for the benefit of men, but that's as much a feminist peeve as a queer one.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_swallow/]

(That's pretty much how I feel, too.)

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Right, exactly. It really doesn't seem like a fandom-only thing to me, anyway (I did plenty of cuddling and hand holding and etc at SRC). There's definitely an odd idea of the binary somewhere in the background to these discussions.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I talked to my mom when I was at SRC, and she said things like snuggle piles and platonic sleeping (whether between straight girls or even between dating couples of whatever configuration) weren't as common when she was in college--and she went to Santa Cruz. Physical displays of affection were more reserved for people you were dating, and couples didn't usually sleep together unless there was sex involved. That's just one data point and my mom was probably a bit out of the loop, but I think there's a huge societal shift re: physical affection (I mean hell, the medical establishment used to discourage parents from kissing their babies--once a year was "excessive"--and now we know babies need physical affection to develop properly).

So I think that's a good thing and only loosely related to "faux bisexuality" or whatever.

[shrift.livejournal.com]

IN OTHER NEWS, here are some more people Roy Harper should have sex with IMMEDIATELY

YES, PLEASE.

Dean Winchester + Roy Harper = Weapons Porn of Beauty

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Roy Harper + ANYBODY, dude, seriously. I just. ROOOOOOOOOOOY.

[cidercupcakes.livejournal.com]

Roy should TOTALLY have sex with Buffy. They would have very great sex, although there would probably be some bruising.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*giggles* If Roy could manage with Grace, he should be able to survive Buffy. (He LIKES strong women.)

[hobbledehoy.livejournal.com]

i know that when i was involved in Relationships with gayboys in high school, there was a lot of sleeping together and cuddling and awesomeness, precisely because there *was* (theoretically) no chance of us hooking up.

and with the one that i hooked up with, still what i miss most is the smell of him from when we took naps backstage (they gave us too much free time at that school).

but, um, i like to lick people over the internet. and they are people who i do not actually lick in real life (please see comment to jaci up the page), but i still like to lick them on the internet.

:: glomp ::