"no, no, no, never put a dwarf in a suit!"

[schmerica]

One side effect of my general apathy towards Ray/Ray as a pairing is that -- although I actually do quite enjoy some stories with them, if only because you guys write so awesomely and do justice to the characters -- my suspension of disbelief often fails me. I can accept the failure of RayK/Fraser; I can accept all the things you want me to accept for the boys from Call of the Wild, whose chemistry I don't see, getting all the way to this complicated relationship. But when you try to get me to that tiny extra little step, and tell me that Kowalski is more important to Vecchio than Fraser is, that the V/K relationship trumps the F-V friendship in Vecchio's head -- that, in point of fact, Ray is willing to give up Fraser in order to have Kowalski...

Yeah, I totally get lost there. Alas!

Probably the solution here is for me to stop trying to read Ray/Ray stories, since I obviously have mental stumbling blocks that have nothing to do with the quality of the story, but. You guys keep writing fic! And you're good! And it's my fandom! I don't know how to resist all those things!

(Actually, this is sort of similar to a problem I had in Smallville fandom, although in that case it wasy 50 times more extreme -- people wrote Chloe/Lex that not only wasn't really about Clark, but where Lex would choose Chloe over Clark. Giving up friendship when the friend disapproves of the relationship! Which, dude. Writing s1 or s2 Lex choosing anybody over Clark? Is characterization I am not likely to buy, no matter how much work you do.)

The last few days I have been watching lots of Farscape commentaries. Ben Browder + Claudia Black = adorable. Tonight was the two of them and two of the producers doing "Jeremiah Crichton". They subtitled the commentary When Bad Things Happen To Good Shows. Commentaries where they talk about how inexplicably crappy it ended up = for the win.

"It's not right, if you have 88 children, to say one is your most favorite and one is your least favorite--"
"--But this is the son of satan."
"This is the child in military school who has almost no future."
"But we do send a care package occasionally!"

Comments

[grey853.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you on the Ray/Ray. I just don't see it. People write well, and then I'll dabble and try it, but then there's this big ew in my brain. Then I have to either go read some good Fraser/RayK or write something to get rid of this queasy feeling it gives me.

It weird, too, because I don't usually react that strongly to a pairing I don't care for, well, except for M/K in XFiles. I mean, come on. Who sets up housekeeping with the guy who kills your father? Even with a fucked up Mulder, I just don't see it.

Anyway, usually, I just take it or leave it, big shrug, but Ray/Ray, nope, no thank you kindly.

[norabombay.livejournal.com]

Ironically, I was going to do a metaphor using M/K.

In this sense: M/K can be really hot. It can be entertaining. But it is only good when all parties involved know how fucked up it is, and there is not a hint of domesticity.

So, Mulder having sex with Krychek in a moment of weakness while they are trying to fight a common enemy? Sure. Russian Prison Sex (tm)? Sure. Messed up post-colonization epic where they are somehow part of the human resistance? Sell me on it.

But the idea of happy domesticity in the DC burbs? no. way. in. hell. (1).

Ray/Ray. It's not my pairing of choice. I'll read it if it is sold as some sort of messed up post Fraser/ post- Stella/post apocalyptic thing.

But I can't buy "ray/ray love each other more than they love cake. And Benton Fraser". I can't buy the idea of longterm happy domesticity of the Rays. I agree that the idea of either of them choosing each other _over_ Fraser makes no sense of the course of the show.

And Ray/Fraser/Ray, somehow is just wrong. These are three people who cannot form some sort of weird little threesome. None of them seem wired that way. Heck, RayK & Fraser are like walking poster children for obsessive monogamy. They are simply not all going to form some happy threesome with a giant bed somewhere. (2)

(1). As a resident of the DC burbs, all I can say is that Mulder needs to have some money, because a decent love nest is going to run at least 1/2 million. At least. Figure that Fox Mulder is pretty much banned from multi-family housing at this point, if he was staying in Alexandria? In a house with a yard big enough to bury a body, and with enough available parking to hold conspiracy meetings? Plus maybe metro access, because often members of the anti-alien resistance won't drive?

Once Krychek inevitably concludes the removal of Mulder from the FBI, then how exactly do they pay this mortgage? Does evil come with good health insurance?

(2) King Size or not, three men of six foot height do not easily fit in a bed toghether. Even when very friendly. And do you know how much those cost in the Artic? Lots.

[grey853.livejournal.com]

There are some pairings that lend themselves to domestic stories. M/K isn't one of them.

As for a threesome with the Rays and Fraser being a disaster, so with you on that one as well. Threesomes require that those involved be very self-confident and stable. RayK would be a basket case the first time he saw Fraser and RayV together and Fraser wouldn't be much better watching the two Rays. I suppose one problem I have is that RayV always struck me as way too straight to be with Fraser in a romantic relationship. As for Ray with Ray, they don't even like one another and I don't think that's just about jealousy. The whole dynamic would be just too wonky for words.

That said, I found this icon by skater_g8r that I thought was funny about Fraser and two Rays.

[katallison.livejournal.com]

Not to argue against your stumbling blocks (I pet your stumbling blocks! with love!), but for me, when Vecchio took the huge step away from Fraser that he did in taking the undercover assignment, I never got the sense that he was expecting to be able to come back to that relationship/friendship in the same way. And I mean, right, there were external reasons for the show to depict it like that. But there's no way I can read back-from-Vegas Vecchio as not being a *very* different guy from the one we see walking out of the 27th in BDtH. There's a story I've always wanted to write (though your comments isn't really the place for it *g*) about his motivation for doing the undercover, his need to redefine himself, or find alternate definitions of himself, in a completely and wholly Fraser-free environment -- it's not just post-Vegas Vecchio, but also post-Fraser Vecchio. And in my own head, that guy would fit a lot better with Kowalski than he would back with Fraser again. (But like I say, not arguing with you here, and I'm hoping I'm making some dim sense, because I'm running on massive sleep-dep and OMG I so WISH you could be here at Vividcon and we could talk about all this and many other things....)

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

Aww, I wish I could be there, too! But, mmmm, Kat, why must you always have such tasty, tasty brains? Because you definitely have a really good point going on here. (I would so read your fic! Even though it would traumatize me!)

And actually, maybe that's part of another stumbling block for me, I wonder? Because I generally find post-Vegas Vecchio way less interesting than early season Vecchios, in a way. I think I've mentioned before how often I just don't like the Vecchio in Ray/Ray stories, as if they highlight all the things I like least and ignore all the stuff I madly adore about him.

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

it's not just post-Vegas Vecchio, but also post-Fraser Vecchio.

Kat, you are entirely made of awesome. Yes, and YES.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

HEY. Do you know where your one entry about Paul and Callum fucking on the Wilby set is? It is the only Camp Wilby fic I remember reading at all, and I couldn't find it in your memories.

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

This one (http://brooklinegirl.livejournal.com/174791.html)?

(also, darling, in WHAT WORLD is there Canadian actor fic out there that you don't already know about? o.O)

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

maybe there is stuff I read and forgot about, okay! Like I don't remember where the Molly Parker/CKR stuff is anymore. *sniff*

And yes, that's totally it.

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

Like I don't remember where the Molly Parker/CKR stuff is anymore. *sniff*

*helps* (http://estrella30.livejournal.com/146189.html)

Specifically: this comment thread (http://estrella30.livejournal.com/146189.html?thread=2648077#t2648077).

and you gotta have this one, right (http://pearl-o.livejournal.com/556210.html?thread=4228274#t4228274)?

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

You are SO GOOD TO ME.

[china_shop]

it's not just post-Vegas Vecchio, but also post-Fraser Vecchio

Oh, yes! This is exactly it.

For me, it's also that Vecchio's left home. In seasons 1 & 2, he gets a lot of companionship/day-to-day relatingness from his family. He doesn't need a relationship (though he wants the romance). Post-Vegas, though, I think he could be a lot more solitary -- and more willing to consider a relationship that his family couldn't handle.

Great. Now I have belated Vividcon envy. ;-)

[hiddenw.livejournal.com]

Agree with you on not being able to see S1 and S2 Lex picking anyone over Clark. Although, I don't see Chloe/Lex, period.

And Ray/Ray doesn't appeal to me for the very simple fact that they don't have Fraser! Fraser, people! That's where it's at (esp. with Ray K.) ;)

[brooklinegirl.livejournal.com]

Kowalski is more important to Vecchio than Fraser is, that the V/K relationship trumps the F-V friendship in Vecchio's head -- that, in point of fact, Ray is willing to give up Fraser in order to have Kowalski...

I know we will never be on the same page about this, but the thing is, with ANY ray/ray I write, in the back of my head, it's not that Kowalski is MORE importatnt to Vecchio than Fraser, it's that they BOTH have lost Fraser and their relationship starts as a coping mechanism, and continues because it works. Fraser is the KEY to any ray/ray fic. Fraser is the thing that brings them together, however you look at it.

[pearl-o.livejournal.com]

*sniffa* FRASER.

...Yeah, I give up. Hee. *snuggles you and your weird pairings with nothing but love*